Ragamuffin Snap-shot
I've found another thought provoking passage in The Ragamuffin Gospel. Here, Manning quotes a theologian named Robert Hotchkins from the University of Chicago speaking about Christian Joy.
"Christians ought to celebrate constantly. We ought to be pre-occupied with parties, banquets, feasts and merriment. We ought to give ourselves over to veritable orgies of joy because we have been liberated from the fear of life and the fear of death. We ought to attract people to the church quite literally by the fun there is in being a Christian."
How does this strike you? Drop a comment before you leave.
"Christians ought to celebrate constantly. We ought to be pre-occupied with parties, banquets, feasts and merriment. We ought to give ourselves over to veritable orgies of joy because we have been liberated from the fear of life and the fear of death. We ought to attract people to the church quite literally by the fun there is in being a Christian."
How does this strike you? Drop a comment before you leave.
9 Comments:
Hmm. WWJD? That's not a real answer, but I don't know how you go about being "pre-occupied with parties" etc. and remain focused on reaching out to lost people. And I'm not at all sure we're called to "attract people to the church."
Maybe that's just a figure of speech.
By Radioactive Jam, at 11/09/2005 11:50 AM
Of course there is a balncing act on the other side of that statement. We also are bathed in suffering many times so we can, as Paul pointed out, comfort with the comfort we have known.
BUT ...
Where IS the joy? The suprassing joy at the unspeakable greatness?
Too often, I've been around Christians who shun good music, good books, good drama because they are so busy "seeking God"
But are they really seeking God? Or are they just enlarging their spiritual vocabularies? How many people have seen their lives and flooded into the church?
This quote strikes me as right. There should be a wild abandon in loving God (David dancing as he led the people).
Lord, drench me not only with KNOWING your joy, but SHOWING your joy!
D
By Higher Up, Further In, at 11/09/2005 1:25 PM
Hey D.... AMEN!!!
We (or should I say I) get so preoccupied with the daily grind of never-ending to-do lists that it can be difficult to focus on what (who) is most important... and the gift of joy that goes along with that. That is my prayer also...
Love ~G
By germaine, at 11/09/2005 4:25 PM
I'm feeling kind of torn on this one... I agree we should be joyful. How could we not with the precious gift that has been given to us? But (hehe and this might be a big but) i don't think we are made for constant celebration. Many times in the bible Jesus experiences strong emotions. In fact I once heard that there is only one recorded time in the gospels that Jesus is bursting with joy. If Jesus is our main example to follow, then I think it is so amazing to see how he experienced such strong "dark emotions" that we face each day. Jesus wept, He got angry, and sad. I think we would truly be lying to ourselves if we were joyful all the time. I think we should seek to find joy in the hard times, but if a church tries to party out so often to show the joy of the Lord, I think they are pushing many people away.
For one, the members of the congregation would think that they always need to be happy... it doesn't matter if im sad and that my husband/wife betrayed me i need to look good.
Something I always found incredible is how true it is that when one part of the body hurts the rest of it hurts. Everytime i hear pastor darin say that i think of how true that is. Life is full of trials. We should seek to find joy in the Lord with those trials but if we try to smother our true emotions with parties and get-togethers we will be lying to ourselves at where we truly stand with God. Also I think that if we try to put on an image to a non-believer that our lives are just all fun and games they are gonna figure out pretty quick that that is not true and wonder why they signed up for this deal. Not only that but I wonder how many unbelievers might be pushed away thinking they are not worthy to be apart of a church because they are not joyful enough and have too many problems unlike those smiling always joyful Christians who seem to never struggle with anything.
I don't know about you but I want to live a life as extremely honest as I can before God because he sees right through me. God allows trying things to occur in our lives, and I am cautious with this quote because I don't feel like Christians should all turn into a bunch of cartoon characters always joyful and happy. On all my negative points from this quote I definetley want to say that I believe unbelievers are attracted to our joy in the Lord. I always say that we should be like bright shining stars... and trust me I want to be the brightest star that I can be... I just don't want to be an imposter, and i'm pretty sure that to be joyful 24/7 I would have to be. I agree we should be joyful as much as we can and seek it as much as we can, but personally i have always grown from the hard and trying times the most. I am going to seek God out and let the dark emotions come, because Jesus let them come. I know that I am a person who is very emotional. Instead of trying to cover up these emotions like I normally do and pretend that I am all put together I am instead trying to deal through each one of them to return to the joy I have in God. Let's live a life of joy but lets not turn into a bunch of fakes taking more time to look joyful, than taking the time to deal with struggles and then truly be joyful.
That's all i have to say about that sorry if i completley over-analyzed a simple quote. Speaking of one part of the body hurting, I am really struggling with some stuff and if you think of me please pray. My mom is having surgery tomorrow although it is not a high risk surgery I am scared that I am not there, I'm struggling in classes at school, and for some reason I miss home a lot. I just have a lot on my mind so prayer would be good. I love you all and I am thankful for CCA and everything I have learned. The following verse has been popping up everywhere and I think God is trying to tell me something, so I hope it might help you too! night everyone!
Be Blessed!
"Be Still and know that I am God."
~Psalm 46;10
By amanda, at 11/09/2005 10:26 PM
Awwwww, Amanda.... *HUGS*
I remember college, even though it happened in a different century. (I was joking when I typed it, then I realized that ... "Hey, it DID happen in a different century!!!")
I remember that sad missing home feeling. I remember in my 3rd year my dad dropped by out of the blue to visit me (I was only about 45 minutes from home, but enough I didn't see 'em all that often).
He missed me in the dorm. I was walking up to the dorm and saw his car pass. He didn't see me... I chased him frantically down the street. It felt awful. I needed that little bit of encouragement so much... Something about college that I think often digs deeply at us.
But Amanda, guess what I hear in YOUR post?
JOY!
Have you ever had a sad party? I have. Wonderful bittersweet joy-fests.
I remember when we buried my gramma, and later my aunt... two good women. We sat around the table and my cousin told the funniest happiest stories about them. We roared with laughter.
And then we cried.
And then we roared some more.
And cried some more.
I now say pretty much I AM joyful all the time. Cuz joy is NOT hippy, dippy, tipsy doodle happy.
Joy is a deep, deep wonder and a deep deep party-down that God is so good even though all is so bad...
They did it on Sunday. They sang "Be still my soul."
It and "It is well" are two hymns that for me, in music and verse portray THAT aspect of the party-down. The introspective, I may not smile but I'm deep down so in awe of God even though my world is collapsing joy....
Amanda, I wish you scads, oodles and bundles of joy... and this is for you...
When peace like a river
Attendeth my way
When sorrows
Like sea billows roll
Whatever my lot
Thou hast taught me to say
It is well
It is well
With my soul
And Lord, haste the day
When my faith shall be sight
And clouds
Be rolled back
Like a scroll
The trump shall resound
ANd the Lord shall descend
Even so
It is well with my soul.
I am praying just now for your mom. I am praying for you... for comfort, for peace and for ... joy.
D
By Higher Up, Further In, at 11/09/2005 11:01 PM
Hey D...
So true... we are supposed to experience joy in our suffering. I think back to Paul and all that he endured yet he was always speaking from a heart of joy.
I have been to many funerals... including my mothers... where we focus on the joy they gave us in life as opposed to dwelling on their death. Of course it sucks that she's gone, but I can find joy in continuing on, learning what God has to teach me.
I have always said that I would not be the person I am today without the trials and tribulations that I have experience in my past... I know I've told you that manda panda.
Guess what... Doug just called... the surgery is complete and your mom feels great. Gotta love that timing!!
Love ya! ~G
By germaine, at 11/10/2005 12:49 PM
D- thank you so much! I still don't know who you are but you are turning into my guardian angel of support and i am so thankful. :-)
I just got a phone call from my step-dad saying that my mom is doing great, and as I cried tears of joy I thought about what you said, "Joy is a deep, deep wonder and a deep deep party-down that God is so good even though all is so bad..."
I agree, joy is so unexplainable sometimes. thank you so much for your prayers! I am still very anxious and trying to keep telling myself that my mom is fine... I just got my self all worked up and am on my way back down. I printed out what you wrote (it's on the wall in my dorm :-) and have been humming "it is well" all day. thank you for everything! Even though the last thing i want to do tonight is go to work i am going to be joyful in it because God answers prayers and he loves me. i still have a lot of things i need to figure out and work through but i will just have to continue waiting on the Lord and keep reminding myself that i don't need to plan out the rest of my life today ;-).
Thank you for sharing all of your stories, it reminds me that I'm not alone and that its okay to miss everyone. A lot of times I feel like it's a bad thing. okay well enough writing for me- I gotta go finish a paper!
Love you all and thanks for the prayers!
~Amanda
PS: D- I wish you oodles and bundles of joy too :-)
By amanda, at 11/10/2005 12:51 PM
I actually wholeheartedly agree with this--with one caveat.
Celebrations don't have to be big parties all the time, in fact..some of the best have more to do with how day to day events are treated. You can celebrate or..you can look for the mundane. Its all up to you.
No..this fellas right. Your life should be overflowing with celebrations--big and small..constantly.
By Anonymous, at 11/11/2005 8:37 PM
I definitely agree....life is a celebration!
Amanda, your posts made me think alot about being happy and joyful 24/7 and how impossible that could really be. However, I feel truly blessed as of late and.....it is well with my soul! Thanks for the song, D!
By Jackie, at 11/14/2005 12:17 AM
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