An End To The Mystery
Okay, great comments so far on the mysterious 11 point statement posted a few days ago. It's time to unveil the mystery.
The 11 points were given by Doug Pagitt, author and pastor of Solomon's Porch in Minneapolis, in a radio address, as an outline of the 'emerging church'. I've been convinced for the longest time that the emerging church movement couldn't accurately be defined, because so many different people refer to themselves or others as 'emergent' and 'emerging' for different reasons - so much confusion! In these 11 statements I think Doug Pagitt has set some discernible characteristics to the emerging church. So now the question is, are we one? Should we be? Should we be very concerned about the emerging church as many are?
Let me list those 11 characteristics again and add my comments to them a few at a time. Today, the first three:
1. Embodies a Kingdom of God focus... joining in where God is evident. I read this as a statement the entire church should embrace - the fact that we are all smaller (local) parts of a larger (global) whole - the body of Christ. I think that Christ's Church embodies a kingdom focus.
2. Pursues faithfulness to God through new practices, structures and understandings. This one made a few who left comments nervous. I take a step back (farther away from specifics to general, if you will) and think this makes very good sense. Jesus cautioned the folly of trying to put new wine in old wine skins. We live in a newmillenniumm. That is not to say that we throw out truth or that we abandon all our heritage. It is to say that we need to re-evaluate some of the vehicles (wine skins) that we have used successfully in the past for their relevance today. At Christ's Church, for instance, Missions is a great example. We have been learning a new manner of viewing Missions - relationships over tasks - that has caused us to change our perspective and our practice. I think Christ's Church pursues faithfulness to God in new ways relative to our times.
3. Tends to have a hopeful and positive view of God's engagement in the world... again, joining in where God is evident. - This one is one of the more ambiguous points to me. Is it abouoptimismsm? I am a 'cup half full' guy. Or is it about more, a life lived in the very real expectation that God wins, and therefore lived in awe of His every move? I think that way too. In any case, I don't 'disagree' with this characteristic. I frankly view it as a breath of fresh air in contrast with a church that has, for my entire lifetime, been extremely negative on all things. What I mean by that is that the church has forever (again, in my lifetime) been defined by what she disapproves of. How wonderful it is when the church emphasizes putting out those things that are good and praiseworthy more so than simply pointing out all of those things that are evil. I think of it like this: guys like Chris Tomlin and Dave Crowder putting out great art or fundamentalists pointing out the evils in the arts... hmmm.
What do you think now that you know where the statements came from? What are your thoughts on my comments on the first few characteristics of the emerging church?
The 11 points were given by Doug Pagitt, author and pastor of Solomon's Porch in Minneapolis, in a radio address, as an outline of the 'emerging church'. I've been convinced for the longest time that the emerging church movement couldn't accurately be defined, because so many different people refer to themselves or others as 'emergent' and 'emerging' for different reasons - so much confusion! In these 11 statements I think Doug Pagitt has set some discernible characteristics to the emerging church. So now the question is, are we one? Should we be? Should we be very concerned about the emerging church as many are?
Let me list those 11 characteristics again and add my comments to them a few at a time. Today, the first three:
1. Embodies a Kingdom of God focus... joining in where God is evident. I read this as a statement the entire church should embrace - the fact that we are all smaller (local) parts of a larger (global) whole - the body of Christ. I think that Christ's Church embodies a kingdom focus.
2. Pursues faithfulness to God through new practices, structures and understandings. This one made a few who left comments nervous. I take a step back (farther away from specifics to general, if you will) and think this makes very good sense. Jesus cautioned the folly of trying to put new wine in old wine skins. We live in a newmillenniumm. That is not to say that we throw out truth or that we abandon all our heritage. It is to say that we need to re-evaluate some of the vehicles (wine skins) that we have used successfully in the past for their relevance today. At Christ's Church, for instance, Missions is a great example. We have been learning a new manner of viewing Missions - relationships over tasks - that has caused us to change our perspective and our practice. I think Christ's Church pursues faithfulness to God in new ways relative to our times.
3. Tends to have a hopeful and positive view of God's engagement in the world... again, joining in where God is evident. - This one is one of the more ambiguous points to me. Is it abouoptimismsm? I am a 'cup half full' guy. Or is it about more, a life lived in the very real expectation that God wins, and therefore lived in awe of His every move? I think that way too. In any case, I don't 'disagree' with this characteristic. I frankly view it as a breath of fresh air in contrast with a church that has, for my entire lifetime, been extremely negative on all things. What I mean by that is that the church has forever (again, in my lifetime) been defined by what she disapproves of. How wonderful it is when the church emphasizes putting out those things that are good and praiseworthy more so than simply pointing out all of those things that are evil. I think of it like this: guys like Chris Tomlin and Dave Crowder putting out great art or fundamentalists pointing out the evils in the arts... hmmm.
What do you think now that you know where the statements came from? What are your thoughts on my comments on the first few characteristics of the emerging church?
6 Comments:
I should have known it was about the emerging church...
I don't know... #2 still bothers me some... may be semantics, may be something else. I guess being so distant from America and it's culture, and seeing emerging trends within the church and Christian community... honestly, a lot of it makes me cringe and roll my eyes. I know what works in one culture may not, and probably won't work in another culture, but I just think a lot of people are getting carried away with trying to be "so relevant" they aren't relevant at all.
One of my desires is to bring some of my Bosnian friends from the church here to America with me to meet their brothers and sisters. but then again, the thought terrifies me. I don't want them exposed to a lot of what the "american" church has to offer. I don't mean to be mean, and i'm not talking about any one church in particular - just the Christian culture in general.
Again, i guess I'm not really commenting on the topic, but at least I'm commenting. :) Maybe I think the church should stop emerging and start immersing... so much of this stuff is so ambiguous and, oh gosh, what... unmearsureable, that you can go on and on trying to attain it, and never get there... i guess "emerging" has the conotation of really never arriving. None of that really came out right - I know what I want to say, but I can't get it into words.
I'm done... at least for now... ;)
By LeAnne, at 4/27/2006 3:45 PM
Leanne, Darin, et al,
I think I'm a curmudgeon. Any (and all) movement makes me roll my eyes and pull away. I saw good things in Promise Keepers until my faith and relationship with God was defined by whether or not I went to a rally.
Jesus took His closest three up to what we now call the Mount of Transfiguration (don't think it was called that then, was it?). His glory was somehow made evident. A voice boomed from heaven, "This is my Beloved Son. Listen to Him." Jesus stood talking with a couple of men, maybe Moses and ???
Peter (gotta love him!) said, "Lord, this is GREAT! Let's build some stalls here, put up a few billboards, get a carnival ride or two, man, we've got an ENTERPRISE!"
God is moving and it humbles me. I love reading of the "emergent-cy". I love that it runs counter to hidebound traditionodoxy. Bu what I love to see is when those very NEW boundaries get crossed up again. When a staid Southern Baptist church is moved by the message of freedom and love and relationship. When an emergent church is ministered to by a Calvinist firebrand.
Just thoughts from one who is ripping up his own house. Things happen when you inhale enough mold. I'm seeing Jesus in the wallboard.
D--
By Higher Up, Further In, at 4/28/2006 1:32 AM
You could always sell the wallboard on E-bay... :)
By LeAnne, at 4/28/2006 7:55 AM
Labels and lists and mission statements and defining who we are and on, and on....
The interpretation of this, or any, list all depends on the viewpoint of the reader. If I'm in a cynical mood, I'll read the list in a cynical way. If I'm in a compassionate mood,...
We've seen in this discussion already how many of us have said something along the lines of, "I have trouble with number XXX." Or "I'm not sure that I fully understand number XXX." What if a church were to say, "This list is us. Yup, this is who we are," and that question about number XXX causes a seeker to not return? Those who are strong in their faith can debate the merit of points on a list, but that same list can be a barrier to someone new to the faith.
I've always had issues with lists, rules and mission statements (gee, can you tell???). Post a sign out front that says "Church" and that's all that should be required. I know, it can't be that easy, but sometimes we make it too hard.
Emerging church. Hmm... Yet another label. Along the lines of the series of current sermons, does the emerging church lean more towards the teachings of Apollos, or Paul?
By Jeffro, at 4/28/2006 7:59 AM
I am pretty sure most opponents of the emerging church would tell you the emerging church leans more after the teachings of Brian (as in Brian McLaren).
By Darin, at 4/28/2006 9:42 AM
Well, if they are leaning towards the teachings of Brian... is that taking more of a place than the teachings of Paul??
Knowing that the list is no where near the Five Points of Calvinism, but for example, can you be a 5 or 6 pointer in regards to the "emerging list?"
Every church/denomination has it's list of of what it does and doesn't believe, even if it says it doesn't have a list. I don't see a system of checks and balances with the emergent stuff... and I think a lot of the things on their list can be interpreted in a lot of different ways (as Jeffro pointed out, it could even depend on the day one reads them). Who do I go to for clarity? What happens if a chrch crosses the line - where is the line? Who put it there? Who moves it?
I do believe in accountability. And I don't know who holds who accountable here. I think that can be dangerous - for new and old Christians alike...
By LeAnne, at 4/28/2006 10:07 AM
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